spiritual abuse, double standards and changing times

“In a world of ‘safe spaces’ it appears that no space is safe.
So it was with interest and a degree of concern that I heard of a new term
about to be added to our legal vocabulary.
As well as sex abuse, child abuse, racial abuse, hate crime abuse,
emotional abuse, psychological abuse and domestic abuse,
we now have ‘spiritual abuse’ SA”

David Roberston on the Wee Flea

(a bumper sticker as seen from sitting in a parking lot/ Julie Cook / 2018)

“Mother, what are you doing?!”

“I’m taking a picture of that bumper sticker.”

“Mother, why are you taking a picture of that sticker?”

“I think I may want to use it in a post on the blog”

Do Not Cause Trouble!”
Life isn’t that easy Mother, you can’t call people out like that!”

I’m not calling anybody out Son…nobody knows that car, where it is, who it is
or who you are for that matter.
I’m just wondering what would happen if I had the same sort of sticker on the back of
my car—something like…
‘Why Christianity.org”…Faith, Hope, Love…”

“Somebody would probably throw something at your car or slash your tires Mother.
And who says there isn’t already some sort of organization out there
pushing Christianity like that?
Mother why do you want to cause trouble?
This is not the same city you knew growing up.
Times are different…
Muslims recruit and you’re not supposed to be bothered by that.”

I’m not supposed to be bothered by that, yet everyone would be bothered
if I was the one out recruiting for God and Jesus…
I’d be ridiculed, mocked or branded a homophobic, or NeoNazi or the racist…
the list goes on…
And I for one don’t like a double standard.”

He may be almost 30 but I can still sense the eyes rolling when he’s seated behind
me in the car.

After lunch, we’d run by the grocery store while his very pregnant wife ran into
the store to grab her last bottle of prenatal vitamins.
She’s decided to give up being pregnant for Lent.
The doctor told them that it’s any time now…
but if our little baby-to-be decides that the womb is a happier place,
they’ll induce next week.

I’m with her—the womb just might be a happier place!

And as sure as shootin’, there would be those who would jump on some sort of box
scolding me for actually really noticing the bumper sticker in question.
They’d tell me that “they”, whomever the “they” may be,
have just as much right to advertise, recruit and spread the love as anybody else…
that is…
all but for me…
the American Christian who doesn’t like a double standard.
Throw in my gender and ethnicity and we’ve got a real scandal on our hands.

And no, I’m not trying to cause trouble…
because I for one believe in our freedoms…
those very freedoms that men and woman have been dying for since before 1776.
Freedom of speech, freedom of religion, freedom from tyranny…and freedom from being
bullied because I will not hide that I am a Christian.

So yes I pretty much believe in freedom…
Yet I am discovering, each and every day, that that same notion of Freedom
does not apply to me as a Christian nor does it apply to Christianity as a whole.

Now we should all know that I really don’t care that a Muslim wants to put a bumper
sticker on a car.
Nor do I care if a non-Muslim wants to put a sticker about an Islamic organization on a car.
Just as I don’t care if a Jew, a Buddhist, a Pagan or even me, the Christian, puts a bumper
sticker on a car…becasue we are free to do so—I think we call that freedom of speech.
I’ve even seen offensive ‘F’ word bumper stickers that I find highly offensive…
but that whole freedom thing doesn’t give a didly that I’m offended.

What I do care about however is the growing contempt for Christianity.

So it should come as no surprise that today our friend the Wee Flea Scottish Pastor
writes a post about some new nonsense now out there being touted as “spiritual abuse”

Now when I think of “spiritual abuse” things like Scientology comes to mind.
Cults come to mind.

The sort of things my mother was always worried over when I was growing up.
Because I grew up during those late 60’s and 70’s–a time rife with movements and cults…
Think Charles Manson. Think David Koresh.

Kids were all the time running off to crazy places and things—
places and people who witnessed parents having to kidnap their own kids and
have them “deprogrammed.”
Things my parent’s generation were afraid of for their children, my generation…
just as I am now most worried about my grandchild growing up in a civilization where
Christians are now more globally persecuted than ever before,
while no one says a darn thing.

A bit tongue and cheek, a bit heavy-hearted, our Wee Flea friend lists the definition,
as he sees it, as to what Spiritual Abuse is all about…

What is Spiritual Abuse?

From my point of view those who take their stipends from the church but do not teach
what that church teaches are being spiritually abusive.
Those who manipulate in any unbiblical way are abusive.
Liberal theology is abusive.
Legalistic theology is abusive.
Most BBC religion I find to be quite manipulative and abusive.
Should they be prosecuted?
Should we ban Jehovah’s Witnesses?
The Mormons?
And what about the dreadful Free Church of Scotland –
with all their ‘keeping the Lord’s day and refusing to work on Sunday’ nonsense….
is that not abusive?
What about the Baptists putting psychological pressure on people to almost drown them?
Or charismatics ‘laying on hands’ –
surely that sounds dodgy?
Almost anything or any group can be termed ‘abusive’.

The trouble is that the term ‘spiritual abuse’
(as opposed to emotional, physical and psychological abuse)
is so lacking in definition that you are going to end up with the government
telling us what is really spiritual and what isn’t.
Do we really want the government and lawyers determining theology?
How ironic that in the name of the secular state,
the separation between church and state will be broken down,
as the state starts telling the church what it should teach and do.
It will be the end of religious freedom in this country
(and given that religious liberty is the foundation stone of all freedom,
it will lead to the end of all freedom – as the authoritarian state,
led by the civic priesthood, determines all our thoughts, words and actions).

The Real Danger

Where this madness could lead was exemplified at the Anglican General Synod last week
where one member asked if the spouses of clergy who had had extra-marital affairs
could be described as ‘survivors of spiritual abuse’.

A Catholic woman could claim that she has been spiritually abused because the
Catholic Church does not allow her to become a priest.
Jayne Ozanne could claim spiritual abuse if Christian Today published an article
that upheld the biblical teaching that marriage is between a man and a woman.
A child brought up in a Christian home could claim spiritual abuse because they
were made to go to church with their parents.
The list is endless.
And so are the dangers.
The bottom line is that, whatever the good intentions of some,
this is not primarily about stopping abuse or protecting children,
it is about using the danger of abuse in order to control and suppress.

The crime of spiritual abuse: One of the most dangerous ideas in decades

Live as people who are free, not using your freedom as a cover-up for evil,
but living as servants of God.

1 Peter 2:15

111 comments on “spiritual abuse, double standards and changing times

  1. atimetoshare.me says:

    Oh my goodness! Spiritual abuse – next they will say any instruction in God’s Word is brainwashing. Oh I forgot, they r already used that one. Political correctness again taking the upper hand in my opinion. We are free thinkers until someone tells us it’s wrong to believe as we choose. Heaven help us😳

  2. SharaC says:

    This is amazing… I’d be the lady snapping a pic of that jumper sticker too, good grief what a sham. Good read as always girl!!

    • thanks Shara—I’m glad to know I wouldn’t be alone in snapping pictures and wondering about what could possibly be wrong with this picture…
      I think we call that fighting the Good fight 😉

  3. Great post, Julie. Ya know, it seems like the only religion on earth that is abused lately is Christianity! But then, we were warned from the beginning of time that we would have to suffer a lot of abuse before we are called home.
    As for the “freedoms” this country was founded on, we seem to have lost most of that already. Too many people have stopped voting, but I will try to stay off that soapbox for now. If we don’t vote we are allowing other people to decide what we have to live with, and lately it seems the choices are questionable, to say the least. One by one we have given up our freedom by our apathy. Giving something a new label, like “Spiritual Abuse” highlights that. It makes me very sad that so many things that we took for granted when I was young have now become outlawed by a few people with loud voices and prejudice.

  4. Well said, Julie.

    Your bumper sticker reminds me of one I saw, “coexist” and the little cross had been scratched out. It made me mad, I am not willing to be scratched out.

  5. dbp49 says:

    Anyone proud enough to fly any bumper-sticker should have no complaints if someone else thinks said bumper-sticker is worthy of a picture.

  6. […] Skimming through my blog list I ran across this gem from Cookie. “Spiritual abuse, double standards and changing times” […]

  7. Wally Fry says:

    One has to wonder why every belief has to be accepted except Christianity. I think the answer is quite obvious. That being other than the fact that criticizing some will get you beheaded of course.

  8. Arkenaten says:

    and freedom from being
    bullied because I will not hide that I am a Christian.

    I don’t believe you should feel that you need to hide from being a Christian either, and I am sure you would not dream of bullying others with your personal religious beliefs am I correct?

    To this end, do you acknowledge that such freedom should extend to not having any religions being imposed on areas of society that should remain strictly secular?
    Prayers at schools, or the opening of sports events for example?
    Thereby ensuring all religion, worship and other religious devotional practices were kept within personal boundaries and recognized religious environments – Church, Temple, Shul, Mosque etc?

    • hello my freind—now you would most likely readily assume that I am one who believes very strongly in the power of prayer as well as its importance—and you would be correct in that assumption. I wish more folks would find strength in prayer…but you would not agree with me on that so there we are at a familiar crossroads…

      • Arkenaten says:

        What you believe really is none of my business, Julie.

        As I have tried to express in my initial comment, freedom from religion is equally as precious as freedom of religion.

        Would you agree, therefore, that, religious belief should be regarded as primarily personal and devotional practices outside of the home should be confined to traditionally recognized places of worship: Church, Shul, Mosque, Temple, etc?

      • We of the Judaeo / Christian faiths are told to pray and pray earnestly…so pray I do—and I find it most fascinating that
        the pharaoh Akhenaten, whom I’m thinking you base your gravatar on, was actually the pharaoh credited with instituitng a belief of monotheism in Egyptian belief—as in one god—mine is the One True Omnipotent God—and yes, I find prayer to Him of the utmost importance—again at our impasse.

      • Arkenaten says:

        I am fully aware of the history of Akhenaten. I rather enjoy the irony.

        I say pray all you want to, for as long as and fervently and as much as you deem fit.

        Why should this be an impasse?
        You pray I don’t.
        I don’t smoke or drink either – maybe you do? Is that an impasse?

        All I am trying to to establish here is if you agree with my initial comment regarding where and when religion should be practiced?
        You still have not specifically responded to this question.
        Is there a reason why?

      • Wally Fry says:

        No, nobody agrees with that. That’s stupid.

      • Arkenaten says:

        Nobody agree with what, Wally?

      • Wally Fry says:

        That talk of faith should be confined to home and church. Only atheists evangelists agree with that. It’s stupid.

      • Arkenaten says:

        Why do you think it is stupid?

      • Wally Fry says:

        Banning thought and the expression of though is the sign of those who have to exercise control of people by controlling their thoughts. It’s stupid. It’s the desperate ploy of a weak incoherent world view. It’s stupid.

      • Arkenaten says:

        Where have I even alluded to banning any religion?
        Yes, it is stupid, and irresponsible.
        But if you wish to live in a truly free society then you must surely recognise that there are myriad of religions and unless you are prepared to cater for them all then you are very soon going to run into problems.
        can you imagine how long a Town Council meeting would go on for if prayers were offered from every representative religion? And why must those with no religion be marginalized?
        You can imagine how silly it would quickly become.
        Better no religious involvement in such cases, wouldn’t you agree?

      • Wally Fry says:

        Um….so what’s your solution to this “religion problem?” I don’t mean at government functions. I certainly understand the Constitution of this nation better than you.

        I mean, what is YOUR solution to get religion back into homes and churches, and never out of them?

        Free my butt. LOL. That’s stupid. Yes, Ark, you have suggested legislating against religion. You have suggested having it classified as a mental illness, too.

        You are so weak and pathetic you can’t even stand up for your own beliefs. Why? Because your beliefs are incoherent and without basis.

        You KNOW the Christians have it right. That’s why you come here. Put away the pea shooter, Ark.

      • Arkenaten says:

        There is no ”solution” I can offer, it all rests with those involved in the various religions to recognise that they could not even practice their faith if it were not for secularism.
        And this is why there are traditionally recognized places of worship: Mosque, Temple, Church Shul etc.

      • Wally Fry says:

        Ah…no solution, just words

        Figures. That’s stupid.

      • Arkenaten says:

        The solution is self regulatory. But it first requires people such as you to recognise that Christianity is not the sole religion in the community and thus respect is due.

        If you were to lead by example then perhaps others will too?

      • Wally Fry says:

        Ok. I do recognize that. Most do

        Yet i refuse to keep my faith in my home and church . I preach it every chance I get I any place i can to any body I can

        What you gonna do about it?

      • Arkenaten says:

        Me? From down here in Johannesburg? What do you think I can do, Wally?

      • Wally Fry says:

        Then I’ll come there and preach

        What you gonna do about It?

      • Arkenaten says:

        Let me know when you are arriving and I’ll pick you up from Johannesburg International.

      • Wally Fry says:

        You don’t have the gumption to stand by you worldview.

        I suppose if mine was void and incoherent I would waffle too

        Have one Ark

        As usual you don’t answer question only fling them like poo

        That’s stupid

      • Arkenaten says:

        I don’t have a specific worldview.

        Why do do consider a non-christian worldview to be void and incoherent?

        Many people consider the worldview of someone who states that the earth is no more than 10,000 years old and that humans co-existed with giant dinosaurs to be completely incoherent. Furthermore, paleontology confirms this.
        In fact, some might regard an individual who firmly believed the idea of T-Rex, and Pterodactyls inhabiting the earth at the same time as humans 6000 years ago
        to be either a waffling science denier or maybe even delusional.
        I am sure there are millions upon millions of Hindus, Jews , Muslims, Jainists, Wiccans, Buddhists, and even Manchester United supporters etc whose lives are full of meaning, purpose, love joy, fun and beer.

      • Wally Fry says:

        Lol. Now the atheist talking points begin. Pass. You are too scared to ever answer question. I’m done

        Have one

      • Arkenaten says:

        Have you actually asked a question? Maybe I missed it?
        Mind your fingers when you stroke your T Rex, Wally.

      • in this life I suppose perhaps there are those who are quite content…and I don’t exactly recall calling non believers void or inchohrent…and just so you know, my best freind since I was 12 is a Jew…we have a deep mutural respect for oneanother …and yes I would hope that when the time came she would claim the Jewish carpenter I claim as a Savior as her own—but that will be her decision…I just lay out the reasoning..in the end, it’s up to her to choose to follow or not…
        God is a gentelmen in that regard—He doesnt force Himself…

      • Arkenaten says:

        And I am sure she feels the same and fervently hopes and prays that you reject the doctrine you have accepted and eventually embrace the Jewish faith and worship Yahweh as the single one god.
        And there are probably Muslim neighbours who include you in their prayers that fervently hope you will come to your senses and realise that while Jesus was a great prophet Mohammed is God’s final prophet and you will find eternal peace and happiness if you just embrace Islam and worship Allah.

        Of course the final decision is yours, they just lay out the reasoning.
        Allah is wise and just, and merciful, and the Qu’ran is perfect and without fault. It says something like this right at the beginning.
        Have you ever read it?
        Allah is also probably considered the perfect gentleman according to Muslims.

      • If you enjoy owning women in harems and using them as sex slaves I suppose some find some sort of nobleness in such-

      • Arkenaten says:

        As opposed to the Christian pedophiles that are rampant in your religion?
        And the highest rate of infidelity and divorce among Evangelical Christians …. not to mention the stats on porn addiction among the fundamentally fervently religious.

        Do Jews have harems and sex slaves?
        I wasn’t aware.
        I don’t think they do, you know.

      • That would be your friend Mohammad— and as for statistics with evangelicals- I can’t say— I am not a member of those denominations

      • Arkenaten says:

        My ”friend” Mohammed!
        Lol… good one.
        Although Liverpool have a marvelous striker named Mohammed Sallah. Scoring goals like there is no tomorrow. He’s worth his weight in gold at the moment.

        So you are not an evangelical fundamentalist type Christian. Interesting. In that case, may I ask what type of Christian you are?

      • Born and raised in the Episcopal Church— but as she has taken to a more worldly and secular calling, I am merely drifting as I continue to claim God’s word and law the final law and word—

      • Arkenaten says:

        I am not familiar with them. Do you play with snakes and such?
        How about evolution, are you on board or are you a strict biblical inerrantist Creationist type?

      • Think Church of England…Anglican..that is the root.
        No snakes thank heavens 🙂 Keep them where they belong in the woods or under rocks..
        and I am a Creationist–as in that whole Adam and Eve business—

        Our’s is a liturgical based denomination—the joke growing up was that the Episcopal Church was Catholic lite 🙂

        And yes Ark, I consider myslef Orthodox in my faith.
        I follow the blog of a lovely lady in Johannesburg who is an Orthodox nun—
        wonderful teachings there…

        anywhoo—as I say, it’s time to get busy…the clothes won’t wash themselves!

      • Arkenaten says:

        Ah, C of E! My old stomping ground!

        So not strictly Anglican then as they believe in evolution, do they not?

        And I am a Creationist–as in that whole Adam and Eve business—

        And how do you deal with the fact that the human genome project once led by Francis Collins, a devout Christian, has proven that Adam and Eve as the prime couple was impossible?
        Are you rejecting the work of hundreds and hundreds of dedicated scientists, many of whom are Christian much like Collins I would imagine?
        And do you likewise reject evolution?

      • I believe that in the beginning God created the heavens…on down the line…
        and here’s the thing…He is God and I am not—there will alway remain many mysteries that I cannot, man cannot, answer, no matter how hard we all try…because He is the Creator and I am but the created…and like I say, the wash isn’t getting done!
        Happy day my South African friend….

      • Arkenaten says:

        Yes, that is all fine and well. But we now know beyond any doubt whatsoever that there was no biblical Adam and Eve as described.
        Collins and his team proved it. He is a devout Christian, but also a scientist . He fully accepts evolution.
        Are you truly saying he is wrong or worse, been deceived?

        You can still claim you to be the creator but not in the way the bible describes.
        We also know that there was no global flood / Noah’s Ark.
        So, are you truly telling me that as an intelligent person in the 21st century you actually believe in a literal Adam and Eve and a literal global flood as described?
        Are you serious, or is this a Wind Up The Atheist comment?

      • ColorStorm says:

        hey ark-
        Julie won’t mind since she told you she is biz.

        Who cares what you think about God’s word and creation as to it’s being ‘unreliable?’ Do you think that by repeating your mantra gives it more credibility? Lying bastards (sons of illegitmate fathers) have long tampered with God’s word, you are simply one more whose words will go down in the scrapyard of history.

        Which was harder for God to create, water, clouds, or rain? Rocks, dirt, or blood? Camels, elephants, ants, or canaries? Man or woman? Sun or moon?

        But you may want to actually THINK where exactly all the water on the world came from………..oh wait, it just appeared out of cosmic evolution. And who care about Collins findings? You conveniently find him useful when he agrees with you, but despise his Christianity. You are the master illusionist and hypocrite.

        Tomorrows scientists will discover that yes, Adam and Eve lived, and the scriptures once more prove correct. And Collins will apologize because he ‘missed some data………..’ Hilarious for men to sit in judgement of God’s word.

      • Arkenaten says:

        Read my previous reply to your previous comment.
        It’s the best I can offer, CS. Sorry.

      • Arkenaten says:

        I am referring to all religions. In a secular society imposing specific religious beliefs in the secular arena in most instances would be regarded as restricting religious freedom as the same freedom is not usually extended to all faiths.
        Consider Saudi Arabia, or Dubai for example.
        Islam is the State Religion and Christianity is severely curtailed (In Saudi) and I understand persecution of other faiths, especially Christianity is a common feature .
        In this instance I am presuming you would wish fellow Christians had the freedom to worship, yes?
        It can’t be healthy in a place like Saudi where the religion of Islam and Shari law are firmly entrenched.
        Surely you would agree that religion should be kept out of day to day life?
        That way all people of different faiths can go about their business without fear or prejudice, yes?

      • Wally Fry says:

        Quit trying to shade your personal desire that faith be eradicated by pulling up the most extreme thing you can think of. That’s stupid. If you have a problem with Muslims, I suggest you find a Muslim blog to troll. You better get a BIG testosterone shot first though LOL, and maybe a good neck guard. You have purposely created a false equivalency here. So, you are either slow or liar. Public displays of faith and Sharia Law are NOT the same. If you don’t know that, you are slow. If you know it, and do it. you are liar.

      • Arkenaten says:

        A public demonstration of Christian faith in a Muslim country would likely be severely dealt with.
        How on earth is this a false equivalency?
        What do you think would likely happen if you tried to have an outdoor Christian prayer gathering in Downtown Cairo!
        For goodness sake your feet would not likely touch the ground before you were slung in jail.
        Yes, that is brutal and extreme example … but it would happen. But NOT if you had the same gathering in a church.

      • Wally Fry says:

        Like I said, take that up with the Muslims. We aren’t in Cairo, or Riyadh. Yes, it’s a false equivalency.

        Now we know. You aren’t slow. You are liar.

        Thanks for the clarification.

      • Arkenaten says:

        I am in Johannesburg.
        We have a lot of religious diversity here but we don’t have prayers at sports meets, council meetings, government schools, or at any similar event.
        One faith does not enjoy any special privilege – and this is important .

      • Wally Fry says:

        But anyway. Answer the question. How would you remove faith from all places other than homes or churches. I’ll repeat it, as you tend to not get.

        How would you remove faith from all places other than homes or churches?

        One more time for good measure.

        How would you remove faith from all places but homes and churches?

      • Arkenaten says:

        I have answered your question , Wally. Re-read my reply. If there is anything about it you do not understand let me know, okay?

    • Wally Fry says:

      Ark. What’s a matter? You say later in this thread that you don’t CARE? Obviously you do care, because you spend half of your life chasing Christians around. You care.

      What you want is NO displays of faith outside of church. That is moronic. News flash, rockhead, writing Christian blogs, talking about faith in public and other things are NOT faith being imposed on you. If you think that, then you are of a pretty weak constitution. You don’t like it? Go away then. You care. It consumes you, because know the truth, and you can’t handle it.

      I say again, you are a blow hard, a bully, and at times a bald face liar. You coming here under the guise of asking innocent questions, for instance is a lie.

      Any questions?

      Have one.

      • Arkenaten says:

        No, I don’t believe I used the phrase I don’t CARE .

      • Wally Fry says:

        “What you believe really is none of my business, Julie”

        I stand corrected. You said that. Obviously you consider it very much your business what people believe. Good grief Ark, at least have the gumption to stand by your own beliefs. Get a testosterone shot or something.

      • Arkenaten says:

        No. It only becomes an issue when attempts are made to ensure the beliefs of one group are privileged over another. Until then, Julia is free to believe whatever she wants.
        If she wants to encourage me to believe what she believes then technically she is free to offer her perspective – although after 2000 years most people are fairly aware of what Christianity is about.
        As I said, only when such beliefs are demanded to be awarded a privileged position over and above other such perspectives does it usually become a problem.

      • Sorry boys, I’ve been busy cooking my husband’s Valentine supper.

        Firstly—I find it a little interesting that our Pharoah interested friend, who takes the name of a Pharoah who introduced and imposed upon his people the notion of a monotheistic god, who calls Johannesburg home is arguing with a couple of Americans over Religious Freedoms.
        But I digress….

        Secondly, I am currently broken hearted for the families of 17 victims from the latest school shooting here in the US. 17 families won’t have their loved ones home tonight.
        Valentine’s Day, Ash Wednesday…and now the day we will remember the tragedy at Marjory Stoneman Douglas High School.

        Tomorrow our News will be rife with the reasons behind the madness and what could have been done to have prevented it all….take away the guns they’ll say…
        I say when we severed God from our lives and from the lives of our youth, we have allowed
        a vacuum to open…and what fills that vacuum is more or less a Pandora’s box.

        So on that note, our Pharoah loving friend…we will yield our hearts, thoughts and yes, our prayers to be with those families whose lives will never be the same.
        Until we met again my friend at a later date and time.

      • Wally Fry says:

        Yeah I had no idea that had even happened until this evening. So sad.

  9. Wow you were on a roll today and look at all the comments it spawned. You always know how to get right to the heart of the matter and then put it all together if startle and enlighten the complacent. 🙂 ❤ xoxoxoxoxoxox

  10. SLIMJIM says:

    What a world that we live in today with the double standard against Christianity and Conservatives…I think if Christians have a sticker like that today it sure would be a walking target and especially the part of the country where I live at with its Leftist’s tolerance…

  11. Arkenaten says:

    I say when we severed God from our lives and from the lives of our youth, we have allowed
    a vacuum to open…and what fills that vacuum is more or less a Pandora’s box.

    The US is quite likely the most religious country in the world, so how has ‘God’ been severed?
    One might even be tempted to draw a correlation between such a high level of religiosity, the obscene ease in which firearms are obtained and some sort of societal dysfunction that brings about such tragedies on such a sickening regularity.
    From an outsider’s POV one has to wonder when the US will get its act together and sort this nonsense out once and for all.
    But of course, we all know guns don’t kill people, right?
    Seems prayers are falling on deaf ears, too.

    • Like I said, in the wake of the new day, everyone will be scrambling to point fingers and offer explanations—explanations for the unexplainable…Evil is very much alive and well—as He walks this earth…the Spritirual battle of Dark and Light…
      in the end however…spoiler alert, the Light wins..

      • Arkenaten says:

        Great! Now why don’t you petition your government to ban fire arms?

      • I believe we have that covered in the 2nd amendment and like I said that will be this morning’s first answer— the real answer is much deeper

      • Arkenaten says:

        Yes, the 2nd Amendment.
        Hows that working for y’all?

        Highest rate of mass shooting in the world,
        Highest rate of school shootings in the world.
        The almost obscene ease in which firearms are obtainable.

        And prayer seems to be having zero effect while the US is often regarded as the most religious (god-fearing ) nation on the planet apparently.

        And the kiddies keep getting shot!
        And the guns keep rolling out
        And the NRA is making lots of boodle.
        It seems that shooting yourselves in the foot is the least of your worries.

        Do you consider there might be an (excuse the french) arse-backwards reasoning in your society regarding gun ownership and supposed freedom?

      • Before throwing stones our way, I think I’d take a closer look at life in Johannesburg— easier to cast stones away rather then spending that same effort making “Home” better.

      • Arkenaten says:

        Oh, I am well aware of the stats in my own back yard, beleive you me , but I am not defending this either.
        Did you notice that all you did was hand wave and deflect?
        Are you for gun control/ownership or not?

      • Last I checked you were babbling on over technology— or was that a different feed, different blog…?? I’ve only had one cup of coffee this morning so I apologize— getting hard to keep up with all your dashing about from Christian blog from Christian blog—I said that in the morning, which is now this moment , the gun blaming will begin— even before we allow for the mourning — our problem is far deeper than a gun— which brings us back full circle to life without the saving Grace of the Risen Christ — so before we keep running circle here— I must ready for my day—

      • Arkenaten says:

        Yes, however the US is big on the saving grace etc and religion, yet still has some of the worst gun-related stats.

        Are you for or against gun ownership/control?

      • I have no problem with gun owenership but there needs to be strict oversight—I have no probelmes with hunters and sportsmen who have guns—the problem comes with vaugueness, a no-hold-barred sort of allowance—as in assualt weapons—No sportsman needs an assault weapon.
        Just as sport hunting also needs strict guidelines…but this is not about that.

        I was once a rifelry instructor at a girls summer camp in the late 70’s–I have no problem with sport shooting, clay pigeons and target shooting—the problem happens when people become the target.

        But this madness goes beyond the gun…if it wasn’t a gun, it would be something else—people set on causing harm will find a way to harm…I think we call those suicide bombers…

        But this discussion could go on and on Ark—like I say, an empasse—you don’t like Creationism, you dont like God, you don’t like Christians, you think many Americans are one screw loose…the list of don’ts goes on and on…
        And I am sure you will counter my observation as being false—but it’s just what I read in your discourse.
        You come to blogs to argue a point…whatever that point may be and I dare say the blogs are predominatle, if not totally, all Chrisitan…
        The thing is that I don’t go around trying to argue a point on the sites of others.
        I consider myself a bit too polite for such. I was raised with manners and that I don’t go looking to cause trouble where I’m not invited. I don’t go looking for those I can fuss with.
        I read blogs to learn and to be filled and to share. I don’t go looking to pick a fight. There are tons of folks who write blogs that I woulnd’t agree with…and I don’t go seeking them to be a “stir stick”—I’ve got more to do with my thoughts and time. If I don’t like something, I tend to move on and find that which helps me, fills me, offers me somehting more than I thought or knew.
        And if that is a Christian slant, far the better… because I am a Chrisitan–I believe that man is fallen, I believe that Jesus died for my sins—you can laugh and scoff that all you will…which is fine as that is your perogative…yet you won’t find me following those who differ with me so I can be some sort of antagonist—

        About the only thing you and I will agree on is perhaps a good beer and a good soccer match and that’s up for debate…

        So know that you are always welcome here Ark, but I don’t want to waste space by living life in a constant state of debate—
        because you and I will not find a common ground of belief….

      • Arkenaten says:

        You run an open blog, as do I. I have not been anything but polite during my visit here and you have made many attempts to offer backhanded remarks without directly answering many of the questions I have asked or the points I have raised.

        You have voiced a view of gun-ownership that is echoed by many, yet nothing improves, have you noticed?

        You have an idiot of a President offering prayers for those gunned down and no doubt he will make the same trite, meaningless gesture next month or the month after, because you KNOW it’s going to happen again, don’t you , Julie?

        And you will offer more prayers and blame godlessness while still being the most godly country in the Western world and certainly the most religious.

        So how do you think the problem you have with such horrific gun violence can be solved?

        I would be genuinely interested in your views as I am sure you and friends and family must surely have given this a lot of thought?

        So, what’s the practical solution?

      • ColorStorm says:

        The killer needed a new heart long before he pulled the trigger, as do you. Am I saying you are a murderous killer? Nope. But the human heart is bent on crookedness.

        Stealing penny candy is no different that the corporate embezzling of millions in the eyes of God. Before man, our scales of justice are no doubt different, since we are not perfect. Unless of course, you claim to be perfect.

        You can not explain how a child of two will lie in his teeth, having never been instructed to do so. SIN is an uncomfortable word, and until you come to grips with this fact, you will remain clueless as to WHY people do nefarious things. Kinda makes you wonder about a day of reckoning eh.

      • Arkenaten says:

        I never fully understand you comments, CS.
        You have penchant for melodramatic prose that is lost on moi. I am a simple
        meat n’ potatoes fella.
        Speak plainly, or if not, rather plough your poetic, pithy prose to people who prefer piggledy pastures.

      • Tricia says:

        Julie don’t waste your time with Ark’s nonsense, he won’t be convinced and his sole purpose is to just troll your post and get energized by the back and forth. Gun control zealots, especially those from more “evolved” countries who have no understanding of the importance of the second amendment and the complexity of balancing individual freedoms with public safety, are always the first to screech for more laws.

        Rushing to enact poorly thought out legislation based on emotion is a very bad way for a Democratic country to operate and opens the road to tyranny. Some might say it has nothing to do with preventing kids from getting killed, that it’s all about exploiting tragedies like this for political purposes and power. Gosh that could never happen here, right? It does and the usual useful idiots sop it up every time.

      • Excellently stayed as always Tricia!

      • And that should read ‘stated’- blast fingers and phone!

      • Arkenaten says:

        @ Tricia

        Julie don’t waste your time with Ark’s nonsense, he won’t be convinced and his sole purpose is to just troll your post and get energized by the back and forth.

        I wonder how you would have reacted had it been your children mowed down by a lunatic with a gun?
        Do you truly understand the 2nd Amendment, I wonder? When was the last time you actually studied the wording?

        Also, remember it is an Amendment. It can be changed … or if you prefer Amended. You do understand this, I hope?

        However, you can hand-wave all you like, Tricia, but I’ll take you a bet of a $1000 right here and now that there will be another mass shooting within six months and all the prayers in the world and all the lofty rhetoric about your constitution will meant diddly squat.

        And in the face of the next similar tragedy – and you know it is only a matter of time, don’t you, Tricia – you will simply look foolish and full of sanctimonious hubris.

        And for the record, not all Americans think as you do. Pop over to my blog and read the comments from some of my US visitors. I’ll wager there are a lot more in your country who feel the same.

        Until the next bloodbath, yes?

  12. Oh. my. goodness… this “spiritual abuse” thing is a horrible thought… We so need to be on our knees in prayer for this country and our world! ❤ and hugs to you, dear Julie!

  13. hatrack4 says:

    I had a Pennsylvania teacher in Sunday school class. She said that you could teach Judaism and Islam in class, because that was part of ‘culture.’ But if you used red and green to decorate the room in December, you were given a letter of reprimand in your file and made to take it down. With this recent shooting, we need Jesus in our schools more than ever.

    What is your experience in Georgia?

    • Hi Mark—I was lucky as I taught in a small city school system. I worked there at the end of my time under two different principals who were true men of faith…yet equally understood the law.
      (One former Army man)
      Whereas we did not experience what is happening now…I felt fortunate.
      Yet I saw the writing on the wall as it was a matter of time…
      The kids were given more “rights” than their teachers as our “freedoms” were checked at the door.
      The shift in culture — was manifesting, is manifesting, itself into our schools.
      We still had FCA (fellowship of Christian Athletes) we had student lead bible studies before shool in the mornings…of which had teachers participating…we had local chruches holdinging “meet you at the pole” morning prayer gatherings where kids and chruch leaders would meet at the school’s flag pole to pray…
      We still had prayer before football games, we held a moment of silence each morning, albeit a moment of silent “reflection” and we stood and recited the Pledge each morning.
      But in the past 5 years since I retired—most of that has been removed due to groups from mainly out of state threatening schools who continue to do such—so much of that all being stopped due to hovering notions of law suits.

      I find it almost funny, if it just wasn’t so sad, that atheists, liberals, the ACLU, The Southern Poverty Law Center and the like… have to threaten Christians and Christian organization with leagalities in an attempt to silence them.

      My husband reflected last eveing that when he was growing up in the 50’s throught school—we never heard of mass shootings in our schools, we never had students litterally jumping on their teachers..blatant and definat disrespect…

      I believe it all boils down to taking God out of our lives and the breakdown of the nuclear family…
      in my humble opinon…

      • hatrack4 says:

        Agree totally. I marvel at how all of those organizations that you mentioned have ‘rights’ but Christians seem to have no rights. Is our silence our downfall?

      • I’m thinking it is Mark…I think that’s why I tend to always be trying to rattle the sabers…and then we see the onslaught I receive from our nonbelieving friends who merely wish to fuss, cuss and discuss…all while I’m trying to rally the troops 🙂
        Yep—our silence, our complacency will be our undoing

      • Arkenaten says:

        I believe it all boils down to taking God out of our lives and the breakdown of the nuclear family…

        Yet, the USA is apparently the most religious nation on the planet and probably the most Christian.
        Yet here you are … as barbaric and seemingly deranged as the day is long when it comes to such shootings,and your god is there with you! It simply defies logic.

        I think you might appreciate this, then, Julie. God and Guns all-in-one.

        It is a Fox News article ( and they can be a bit suspect I heard) so you are in a better position to tell me if it is true or not.


      • I think that’s actually Poland

      • Arkenaten says:

        Poland? The church gun raffle? They moved Kentucky to Poland.
        When did this happen?
        Did they take the blue grass with them?

        Are you ready to share what you think is the solution to this Ye haw shoot em up madness, yet, Julie?

      • There is but one solution— that which is found in the word of God and man quit listening to that long ago- so I suppose that’s just the million dollar question my sarcastic friend — and from reading a recent article Poland was noted for being the most Christian nation still around – go figure

      • Arkenaten says:

        The article describes the USA . We are clear on this I hope, and the article is in reference to giving guns away to boost church attendance – so I understood.

        I thought you were being funny so I tried to respond in kind.
        I can do sarcastic though, trust me on this. But I think we should keep it on the level for now, don’t you agree?

        If listening to the word of your god is the solution, this raises some interesting points.
        You live in the most religious nation on the planet and one of the most Christian yet have one of the worst records of homeland violence.
        Where are you Christians going wrong?

        Are you for gun control? You still haven’t answered this question and I have asked it three times already.

      • Wally Fry says:

        Hey Stone head.

        You call this blog host barbaric? Ba ha ha ha ha ha!!

        You, sir are a bully, a blowhard and a bald face liar.

        You come hear acting all pansy wansy like you come in peace, when all you want is to finally spew your God hating garbage and provide the cut and paste of every comment you make ON EVERY SINGLE CHRISTIAN BLOG.

        You aren’t looking to talk or come to answers. You are trying to shut Christianity down. You just don’t have the guts to stand by your own convictions. So, I guess I can add lilly livered pansy to the list of things you are.

        Ark, it doesn’t matter one iota what you think or say about God. Ultimately He will give you exactly what you want. Your own sad will.

      • Arkenaten says:

        No, Wally I did not call Julie barbaric.

      • Wally Fry says:

        “Yet, the USA is apparently the most religious nation on the planet and probably the most Christian.
        Yet here you are … as barbaric and seemingly deranged as the day is long when it comes to such shootings,and your god is there with you! It simply defies logic.

        I think you might appreciate this, then, Julie. God and Guns all-in-one.

        It is a Fox News article ( and they can be a bit suspect I heard) so you are in a better position to tell me if it is true or not.,”


      • Arkenaten says:

        The ‘you’ was in reference to the USA not Julia.
        I imagine that most people who were not morons would have recognized this.
        Apparently I was mistaken.
        I don’t actually tell lies.
        Mind your fingers when you stroke your pet dinosaur, Wally.
        Have a day

      • Wally Fry says:

        Well then was born a moron. Can’t help that

        You on the other hand choose to be a liar who doesn’t have the guts to back the things he says when called out.

        You have one too

      • Arkenaten says:

        Yes, it would appear that you are a moron.
        It can be addressed. But you have to want to change, Wally. Are you willing to try at least?
        But no, sorry to disappoint. I don’t tell lies. I have no need.
        Say hello to your T-Rex for me.
        Have a day.

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